Bold By Choice Podcast

S2 E10 Legacy & Future

As Season Two comes to a close, co-hosts Vashaunta Harris, Jim Goenner, Don Cooper, and Ember Reichgott Junge reflect on 30 years of chartering — the bold ideas, courageous people, and enduring lessons that continue to shape public education today.
This conversation isn’t just about history — it’s about the future. Together, the hosts look back on the movement’s biggest themes and ask how we can continue to honor the original charter promise: freedom, accountability, innovation, and equity.
They explore what’s next for chartering as a living, evolving idea — one that still challenges leaders to think differently about policy, people, and possibilities for kids.
Main Themes
Big Picture: Past and Future
What have the last 30 years of chartering taught us about policy, people, and kids? How do those lessons prepare us for the next generation of change?
Policy & Structure
Chartering was designed to make space for innovation. What have we learned from the compromises of the past — and how can we refine our frameworks for what’s next?
People & Leadership
From pioneers to policymakers, chartering has always been fueled by people. What leadership traits stand out across decades of change?
Kids & Impact
Behind every law and policy are students whose lives have been transformed. How do we keep them — not politics — at the center of the story?
Grassroots & Possibility
Echoing Ted Kolderie’s insight — “the solutions come from those closest to the action” — the conversation reaffirms that the next era of chartering will depend on listening to teachers, families, and communities.
Closing Reflections
Vashaunta Harris:“Chartering is not just about laws or policies — it’s about people seeing possibilities, taking risks, and creating something new for kids. Studying the past isn’t optional; it’s essential if we want to create a better future.”
 
Final Message:Season Two may end here, but the journey continues. Season Three will spotlight today’s charter innovators — the schools, boards, and leaders boldly living out the promise in real time.
Show Notes & Resources
Explore the people, papers, and policies that shaped 30 years of chartering through the Founders Library:
Interview of Ember Reichgott Junge
Ted Kolderie – Creating the Capacity for Change
Zero Chance of Passage: The Pioneering Charter School Story
The Founders: Inside the Revolution to Invent (and Reinvent) America’s Best Charter Schools

S2 E9 From Ideas to Schools

Charter laws created permission, but people created possibility.
In this episode of Bold by Choice, co-hosts Vashaunta Harris, Jim Goenner, Ember Reichgott Junge and Don Cooper spotlight the first generation of charter founders who didn’t just respond to the system — they reimagined it.
These leaders turned ideas into schools, blueprints into movements, and challenges into opportunities. Their approaches were diverse — entrepreneurial, justice-driven, classroom-centered — but all were bold by choice.
Featured Founders & Stories
Dave Levin – Co-founder of KIPP (Knowledge Is Power Program), who turned one Houston classroom into a national model for academic rigor and character education.
J.C. Huizenga – Founder of National Heritage Academies, who brought a business-minded approach to scaling quality and sustainability across public schools.
Don Shalvey – Founder of Aspire Public Schools, one of the first CMOs, who partnered with entrepreneurs like Reed Hastings to pioneer scalable innovation.
Linda Brown – Founder of Building Excellent Schools, who built leaders, not just schools—training hundreds of founders through her rigorous fellowship model.
Roblin Webb – Founder of Freedom Prep in Memphis, who grounded her work in justice, equity, and the unwavering belief that Black students deserve excellence.
 Leadership Lessons
Vision Meets Execution: The founders proved that laws don’t change lives — people do.
Scale Requires Design: From CMOs to fellowships, structure became a tool for sustainability.
Equity Is Innovation: Justice-centered schools redefined what it means to serve every child.
Courage Is Contagious: Each founder’s risk paved the way for thousands of others.
Reflection & Challenge
As Jim and Vashaunta reflect, the first wave of charter founders reminds us that real innovation isn’t uniform — it’s courageous.The question for today’s leaders:Are we still as bold as they were?
Show Notes & Resources
Explore the stories and interviews mentioned in this episode through the Founders Library and the resources below:
The Founders: Inside the Revolution to Invent (and Reinvent) America’s Best Charter Schools — by Richard Whitmire
A School Founder’s History: Dave Levin
Interview of J.C. Huizenga
A School Founder’s History: Don Shalvey, Aspire Public Schools
The Linda Brown Collection
Pioneers and Practitioners: Freedom Preparatory Academy

S2 E8 Birth of Authorizing

Passing the first charter laws was only the beginning. Someone had to make those laws real. In this episode of Bold by Choice, co-hosts Vashaunta Harris, Jim Goenner, and Don Cooper take us back to the messy, courageous, and often misunderstood beginnings of charter school authorizing.
In Washington, D.C., Tom Nida and Jo Baker recall how two boards were formed to oversee charter schools—without a playbook, precedent, or even the word authorizer in common use.
In Minnesota, Pat Sandro raises questions about district-based authorizing and whether districts were ever the right entities to serve as neutral stewards.
Together, these stories highlight the leadership, trial-and-error, and bold problem-solving it took to move chartering from policy on paper to practice in schools.
Leadership Lessons
Lead without a playbook – Early authorizers had no blueprint; they had to define the role as they went.
Balance support and accountability – Even today, authorizers wrestle with being both partner and regulator.
Question the structure – Minnesota’s district-based model raised conflicts of interest that still spark debate.
Reimagine, don’t just repeat – Authorizing is not just compliance—it’s custodianship of the charter promise.
Show Notes & Resources
Explore the full oral histories and research in the Founders Library
Interview of Josephine (Jo) Baker and Tom Nida
Interview of Pat Sandro
Interview of Robert (Bob) Mills, Ph.D.
The Politics of Charter School Authorizing: The Case Study of New York by Jonas Chartock (2012) – Read here
 

S2 E7 The Charter Wave Spreads

In this episode of Bold by Choice, co-hosts Vashaunta Harris, Jim Goenner, and Don Cooper continue tracing the spread of the charter school movement—this time turning to Arizona and North Carolina.
Two very different contexts, two very different laws—but both fueled by bold leadership and a shared belief that public schools could do better for families.
In Arizona, Lisa Graham Keegan helped craft one of the most independent charter laws in the country, creating new authorizing structures outside of district control.
In North Carolina, Speaker Harold Brubaker and Senator Fountain Odom championed charters as opportunities, not attacks—navigating bipartisan politics and caps on growth.
Together, these stories show how courage, context, and coalition-building shaped the next wave of chartering in America.
Key Themes
Why the 1990s were ripe for rapid state adoption of charter laws.
The bold design choices that made Arizona’s law stand out nationally.
North Carolina’s unique balance of competition and opportunity.
Leadership lessons from Lisa Graham Keegan and Harold Brubaker.
Show Notes & Resources
Founders Library – Oral histories, legislative documents, and original resources.
Zero Chance of Passage by Ember Reichgott Junge – Get the book
Arizona & NC Oral Histories – Explore interviews with Lisa Graham Keegan and Harold Brubaker.

S2 E6 Great Lakes to Sunshine State

How did the charter school movement jump from one bold law in Minnesota to states across the country? In this episode of Bold By Choice, hosts Vashaunta Harris, Jim Goenner, and season two collaborator Don Cooper (a charter historian & researcher), travel to Michigan and Florida to explore how state leaders reshaped public education for families and communities.
You’ll hear directly from Governor John Engler of Michigan and Governor John Ellis (Jeb) Bush of Florida, who each pushed through historic charter school laws—though in very different ways.
In Michigan, Engler leveraged executive power and structural reforms to make chartering a competitive force.
In Florida, Bush and Ellis crafted a vision rooted in accountability and equity, building a new structure from scratch.
Together, these stories show how bold leadership, political courage, and strategic design helped transform state systems—and what today’s leaders can learn from their example.
Episode Highlights
Governor Engler recalls how Michigan’s charter law passed despite resistance.
Why Proposal A’s funding shift was a game-changer for Michigan schools.
Jeb Bush and John Ellis reflect on Florida’s early law and its roots in accountability and family choice.
How different political contexts produced unique models—and enduring lessons.
Leadership takeaways: seize the moment, design for context, and act boldly when the system won’t change itself.
Show Notes & Resources
Michigan
Governor John Engler Special Address to the Michigan Legislature on Education (1993)
James N. Goenner, The Origination of Michigan’s Charter Schools Policy: A Historical Analysis (2011)
Interview of Richard McLellan (2020)
Interview of Gov. John Engler (2022)
Florida
Interview of John Ellis ("Jeb") Bush (2021)
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S2 E5 Chartering the Frontier

Charter school laws didn’t appear everywhere at once. In this episode, hosts Vashaunta Harris and Jim Goenner highlight two bold frontier stories—California and Colorado—where courageous leaders and cross-aisle coalitions helped chartering carve new paths.
From California’s SB 1448 negotiated in a few days by bipartisan champions, to Colorado’s collaborative law shaped by Peggy Kerns, Bill Owens, and community stakeholders, this episode uncovers how vision, strategy, and political courage turned idea into policy.
Guests:
Ember Reichgott Junge – author of Minnesota’s first charter law, movement pioneer
Don Cooper – charter historian and civic leader
Whether you lead a school, work in policy, or just believe in educational innovation, join us to hear how these Western states blazed bold trails—and what their stories teach about leading change where you are.
Show Notes & Resource Links
California
California's Charter Schools Story. (2019) https://charterlibrary.org/library/californias-charter-schools-story/
[ACCESS REQUIRED] Hart, Gary K. and Burr, Sue. "The Story of California's Charter School Legislation." Phi Delta Kappan. (1996) https://www.jstor.org/stable/20405703?seq=1
"Education Chairs Introduce 'Charter Schools' Bills". Press release from state Senator Gary K. Hart. (1992) https://charterlibrary.org/library/education-chairs-introduce-charter-schools-bills/
Senate Bill 1448 Chapter 781. (1992). https://charterlibrary.org/library/senate-bill-no-1448-chapter-781/
Colorado
Interview of Peggy Kerns and Alex Medler. (2019) https://charterlibrary.org/library/interview-of-peggy-kerns-and-alex-medler/
Interview of Bill Owens. (2019) https://charterlibrary.org/library/interview-of-bill-owens/
Comparison of Charter School Provisions, Minnesota Statute, California Statute, and 93-183. (1993) https://charterlibrary.org/library/comparison-of-charter-school-provisions-minnesota-statute-california-statute-and-sb-93-183-1993-02-09/
Romer, Roy. State of the State Address (excerpt). (1993) https://charterlibrary.org/library/governor-roy-romer/

S2 E4 The Formation of the Law (Federal)

In this pivotal episode, hosts Vashaunta Harris and Jim Goenner explore how the charter school idea moved from a Minnesota innovation to a national movement. They are joined by Ember Reichgott Junge and Don Cooper to reflect on the federal leadership that elevated chartering from a local experiment to a system-shifting strategy supported across the country.
Listeners will hear clips from Senator Dave Durenberger and Jon Schroeder that capture the heart of this moment in history—when federal policymakers saw the potential for chartering to transform public education and chose to champion it. Together, the group unpacks how asking the right question at the right time, combined with strategic policy design, created the federal Charter Schools Program.
Episode Highlights:
Senator Dave Durenberger’s powerful story of the question that sparked action.
How “public service options” and state-level innovation became federal priorities.
Jon Schroeder’s blueprint for funding and authorizing charter schools at scale.
The crucial role of authorizers and why structure drives outcomes.
Lessons in timing, collaboration, and coalition-building that still apply today.
Whether you’re a policy leader, authorizer, or educator, this episode offers a masterclass in how visionary questions and strategic action create the conditions for lasting systems change.
Listen now to learn how federal leadership made chartering a national priority—and how you can keep building on that legacy.
Resources & Show Notes:
Founder’s Library — Explore the documents and oral histories from Senator Dave Durenberger and Jon Schroeder.
1994 Public School Redefinition Act Summary — Learn how the federal Charter Schools Program came to life.
2018 Conversation: Ted Kolderie & Ember Reichgott Junge
Interview with Ember Reichgott Junge (2023)
Creating the Capacity for Change by Ted Kolderie

S2 E3 The Law That Changed Everything – The Charter Story with Ember Reichgott Junge

In this powerful episode of Bold By Choice, host Vashaunta Harris and Jim Goenner sit down with Ember Reichgott Junge — the Minnesota State Senator who authored the nation’s first charter school law — and charter historian Don Cooper. Together, they revisit the story of how one bold law sparked a national movement, reshaping the landscape of public education.
Ember takes listeners behind the scenes of the late 1980s and early 1990s, weaving together the context, opposition, compromises, and breakthroughs that led to the passage of the first charter school law in 1991. From the Nation at Risk report to Governor Rudy Perpich’s reforms, the Itasca Conference dinner napkin sketch, and finally the emotional “worst day of her career” that ended in legislative victory, Ember’s story reveals how bold leadership, persistence, and principled compromise created the conditions for change.
Episode Highlights:
How A Nation at Risk and Governor Perpich’s reforms set the stage for chartering.
The pivotal role of the Citizens League and Ted Kolderie in advancing bold ideas.
Ember’s personal journey: navigating resistance from unions, moderates, and political allies.
The tense final days of 1991, when the law nearly died — and then passed by just three votes.
Leadership lessons from Ember’s story: compromise is not defeat, structure must change before strategy, and timing matters.
Whether you’re an educator, policymaker, or advocate, this episode offers timeless lessons in courage, resilience, and system redesign. Ember reminds us that laws aren’t just ink on paper — they’re ideas that can change lives.
Show Notes & Resources:
Zero Chance of Passage: The Pioneering Charter School Story (2012)
Remarks by Sen. Ember Reichgott Junge to the Democratic Leadership Conference (1991)
“Involving Families in Education” – A White House Panel (1995)
A Conversation between Ted Kolderie and Ember Reichgott Junge (2018): Chartering Origins | Why and How | Chartering Policy and Advocacy
https://charterlibrary.org/library/2018-kolderie-and-junge-discussion-part-1-chartering-origins/; Why and How https://charterlibrary.org/library/2018-kolderie-and-junge-discussion-part-2-chartering-why-and-how/; Chartering Policy and Advocacy https://charterlibrary.org/library/2018-kolderie-and-junge-discussion-part-3-chartering-policy-and-advocacy/
Interview of Ember Reichgott Junge (2023)
Brief Amici Curiae of Former Elected and Appointed Officials, St. Isidore v. Oklahoma (2025)
Oklahoma Charter School Board v. Drummond and St. Isidore of Seville School v. Drummond Oral Argument
Additional Reading: Chartering A Better Course (book); Zero Rights of Passage (available via donation — inquire through the Charter Library).
Listen now to uncover the true story behind the first charter school law — a story of vision, resistance, compromise, and bold leadership.
 

S2 E2 Ted Kolderie – You Can’t Expect New Results from Old Designs

In this episode, hosts Vashaunta Harris and Jim Goenner reflect on the life and legacy of Ted Kolderie, whose groundbreaking ideas reframed chartering not just as a type of school, but as a system redesign strategy. Joined by returning guests Ember Reichgott Junge and Don Cooper, the conversation pairs archival clips of Ted with fresh insights about what it means to lead boldly today.
Episode Highlights:
Why language matters: chartering as a verb, not a noun.
Teacher leadership and the radical redesign of school roles.
The “big boat/little boat” analogy and what it teaches us about innovation.
Leadership lessons for today: redesign structures, empower teachers, and create space for small, nimble experiments.
Featured Archival Clips from the Charter Library Oral History: Ted Kolderie
Resources & Links:
Zero Chance of Passage by Ember Reichgott Junge
Creating the Capacity for Change (2004)
Chartered Schools = Choices for Educators + Quality for All Students (1988 Citizens League Report)
Making the School the Teachers’ School (2022)
Listen now and hear Ted’s words brought back to life—paired with reflections from the people who knew him best.

S2 E1 Where It All Began – The Roots of Chartering

In our Season 2 premiere, hosts Vashaunta Harris and Jim Goenner travel back to the spark that ignited a national movement. With guests Don Cooper and Ember Reichgott Junge, we trace the formative ideas, people, and policy moments that shaped chartering—from early proposals by Ray Budde to Al Shanker’s influential 1988 National Press Club speech, and the Minnesota Citizens League’s work that turned ideas into law.
This episode pairs vivid storytelling with primary sources so you can follow along, explore the documents yourself, and share them with your teams.
Explore the primary sources
National Charter Schools Founders Library (primary-source archive): https://charterlibrary.org/
Al Shanker, National Press Club (1988): overview at the Founders Library: https://charterlibrary.org/library/albert-shanker-national-press-club-speech-1988/ 
Ray Budde resources: https://charterlibrary.org/search/?_author=ray-budde&_author_list=ray-budde\
 
Education by Charter (backgrounder / origins): https://www.educationevolving.org/files/Ray-Budde-Origins-Of-Chartering.pdf
Strengthen School‑Based Management by Chartering All Schools (1996): https://openlibrary.org/books/OL31401521M/Strengthen_school-based_management_by_chartering_all_schools
Kolderie essay on Budde’s origins (PDF): https://charterlibrary.org/library/ray-budde-the-origins-of-the-charter-concept-by-ted-kolderie/
Founders Library feature: “1988—The Launch of an Idea”: https://charterlibrary.org/library/1988-the-launch-of-an-idea/
Ember Reichgott Junge’s book Zero Chance of Passage (Founders Library page): https://charterlibrary.org/zero-chance-of-passage-shop/
What we cover
Ray Budde’s charter concept: Why a quiet academic proposed reorganizing authority by giving teacher teams contractual autonomy—and how that differed from traditional “program” reforms.
Al Shanker’s second-wave reform: Why a national union leader called for teacher‑led, autonomous public schools—and how that reframed the conversation.
From ideas to statute: How Minnesota’s Citizens League translated theory into policy architecture, paving the way for the first charter law.
Politics, promise, and pushback: Early tensions, misperceptions, and the practical tradeoffs that shaped implementation.
Why it matters nowUnderstanding chartering’s roots isn’t nostalgia—it’s navigation. Knowing the original intent (teacher power + public accountability) helps today’s leaders stay true to the promise while innovating for the future.
Takeaways
Chartering began as a public‑school reform from within: autonomy with accountability.
Real change scaled when local civic groups turned ideas into workable law and authorizers implemented with integrity.
Listen now and use the links above to dive deeper, brief your board, or kickstart PD with founding documents.