Bold By Choice Podcast

In this episode of the National Charter Schools Institute Bold By Choice Podcast, hosts Vashaunta Harris and Don Cooper continue the Founders Library series with one of the most personal and powerful stories yet — the story behind KIPP: The Knowledge Is Power Program, and the teacher whose wisdom and love shaped its DNA.
David Levin, co-founder of KIPP, shares how one extraordinary educator, Harriet Ball, changed the course of his life — and in doing so, changed the course of public education. From his early struggles as a first-year teacher in Houston to his partnership with Mike Feinberg, Levin recalls the lessons Harriet taught him: “It’s never the kids,” “Meet them where they are,” and “Teach with love.”
What began as mentorship became a movement. Harriet’s famous classroom chant —
“You gotta read, baby, read. The more you read, the more you know. Knowledge is power. Power is freedom.”— inspired not only the name of KIPP, but a national philosophy of empowerment through learning.
Levin’s reflections remind us that at the heart of every bold reform is a human connection — one teacher passing the baton to another.
Key Takeaways
1. Mentorship That Sparked a Movement
When a struggling teacher met a master educator, magic happened. Harriet Ball didn’t just teach lessons — she modeled joy, rigor, and unconditional love. Her mentorship turned frustration into inspiration and helped launch one of America’s most recognized charter school networks.
“She taught in 45 minutes what I had failed to teach all year long.” — David Levin
2. The Lessons of Harriet Ball
Levin credits Harriet with teaching him three enduring truths:
It’s never the kids — success begins with the teacher’s mindset.
Meet students where they are — academically and emotionally.
Teach with love — even when students don’t make it easy.
These principles became the moral framework of KIPP, and countless schools were influenced by its model.
3. From Song to System
Harriet’s chant — “Knowledge is power. Power is freedom.” — became KIPP’s name and mantra. It also symbolized the larger idea behind chartering: that knowledge liberates, and educators have the power to reimagine how students learn.
4. Sharing, Not Competing
Harriet’s only request was simple: “Share what I’ve taught you.” Levin and Feinberg carried that ethos forward, creating an open-door policy where any educator could visit KIPP schools, observe, and learn. That spirit of collaboration extended to partnerships with Uncommon Schools, Achievement First, and the creation of Relay Graduate School of Education — a modern relay of teaching excellence.
5. The Baton Keeps Moving
From Harriet’s fourth-grade classroom to KIPP’s national network and beyond, this story is about legacy — educators passing wisdom, courage, and compassion from one generation to the next.
“It’s never the kids. It’s on us.” — David Levin
Reflection from the Hosts
Vashaunta Harris:
“This story resonates with me deeply as a former TFAer. Dave’s realization that ‘it’s not the kids — it’s me’ is one of the most powerful shifts any teacher can make. That mindset is where leadership begins.”
Don Cooper:
“Harriet Ball’s mentorship didn’t just shape KIPP — it reshaped the movement. Her lessons on joy, rigor, and love became the DNA of great teaching everywhere.”
Together, the hosts reflect on how mentorship, humility, and shared purpose continue to define the best of the charter movement — and how Harriet Ball’s legacy remains a guiding light.
Show Notes & Resources
Explore the stories and archives mentioned in this episode:
A School Founder’s History: Dave Levin
Interview of Richard Whitmire – The Founders
The Founders – eBook PDF
The Linda Brown Collection
Pioneers and Practitioners: Freedom Preparatory Academy
If you enjoyed this episode, share it with a fellow educator who believes that knowledge is power — and that power is freedom.Subscribe to keep learning from the founders and the teachers who keep the torch lit.
 

In this installment of the National Charter Schools Institute's Bold by Choice Podcast, hosts Vashaunta Harris and Don Cooper sit down with education journalist Richard Whitmire, author of The Founders — a deep, human story of how collaboration, not competition, built the nation’s most successful charter school networks.
Commissioned by The 74 Million and drawn from the archives of the National Charter Schools Founders Library, The Founders traces the rise of networks like KIPP, Uncommon, and Achievement First. Whitmire reveals that their shared success came from an open-source culture rooted in generosity — a legacy that began in Harriet Ball’s Houston classroom.
“The founders didn’t guard their playbooks—they swapped them.”— Richard Whitmire, Inside The Founders (Charter Library Interview)
Key Takeaways
1. Curiosity Sparked Connection
Whitmire’s project began after a casual conversation with Don Shalvey, who encouraged him to look past test scores and policies. What started as a journalistic curiosity became a national chronicle of the people and relationships driving educational transformation.
“Don Shalvey said, ‘If you really want to know what happened, talk to the people who built it.’ That changed everything.” — Richard Whitmire
2. Cooperation Over Competition
Whitmire found that the most effective charter networks didn’t compete — they shared everything: lesson plans, data, mistakes, and breakthroughs. Instead of guarding intellectual property, they lifted one another up.
“They were rivals for teachers and funding, but they shared their secrets anyway. It was collaboration that made them successful.” — Richard Whitmire, The Founders Interview Transcript
3. The Harriet Ball Legacy
The culture of sharing began with legendary teacher Harriet Ball, whose mentorship of Dave Levin and Mike Feinberg inspired KIPP’s creation. Her only request: “Share what I’ve taught you.”That mindset became the DNA of the entire charter sector — generosity as a design principle.
4. Closing the Learning Gap
Through these networks’ collaborative models, Whitmire witnessed schools where low-income students of color achieved at levels matching their affluent peers — what he called “one of the most hopeful, under-told stories in American education.”
5. The Founders as Living Legacy
Supported by an Emerson Collective Fellowship, Whitmire used the Founders Library archives to document a movement still unfolding. His conclusion? The future of education depends on leaders who share what works.
Closing Reflections
“Movements endure when people choose to collaborate instead of compete.” — Don Cooper“When we share what works, every child wins.” — Vashaunta Harris
In this episode, Whitmire reminds us that the real innovation behind chartering wasn’t just autonomy or accountability — it was community.The spirit of sharing, mentorship, and learning together remains one of public education’s most transformative forces.
Listen now, and explore The Founders Collection at the Charter Library.
Show Notes & Resources
Explore these featured resources from the episode:
Interview of Richard Whitmire (Founders Library Collection)
The Founders – eBook PDF
A School Founder’s History: Dave Levin
The Linda Brown Collection
Pioneers and Practitioners: Freedom Preparatory Academy
 

As Season Two comes to a close, co-hosts Vashaunta Harris, Jim Goenner, Don Cooper, and Ember Reichgott Junge reflect on 30 years of chartering — the bold ideas, courageous people, and enduring lessons that continue to shape public education today.
This conversation isn’t just about history — it’s about the future. Together, the hosts look back on the movement’s biggest themes and ask how we can continue to honor the original charter promise: freedom, accountability, innovation, and equity.
They explore what’s next for chartering as a living, evolving idea — one that still challenges leaders to think differently about policy, people, and possibilities for kids.
Main Themes
Big Picture: Past and Future
What have the last 30 years of chartering taught us about policy, people, and kids? How do those lessons prepare us for the next generation of change?
Policy & Structure
Chartering was designed to make space for innovation. What have we learned from the compromises of the past — and how can we refine our frameworks for what’s next?
People & Leadership
From pioneers to policymakers, chartering has always been fueled by people. What leadership traits stand out across decades of change?
Kids & Impact
Behind every law and policy are students whose lives have been transformed. How do we keep them — not politics — at the center of the story?
Grassroots & Possibility
Echoing Ted Kolderie’s insight — “the solutions come from those closest to the action” — the conversation reaffirms that the next era of chartering will depend on listening to teachers, families, and communities.
Closing Reflections
Vashaunta Harris:“Chartering is not just about laws or policies — it’s about people seeing possibilities, taking risks, and creating something new for kids. Studying the past isn’t optional; it’s essential if we want to create a better future.”
 
Final Message:Season Two may end here, but the journey continues. Season Three will spotlight today’s charter innovators — the schools, boards, and leaders boldly living out the promise in real time.
Show Notes & Resources
Explore the people, papers, and policies that shaped 30 years of chartering through the Founders Library:
Interview of Ember Reichgott Junge
Ted Kolderie – Creating the Capacity for Change
Zero Chance of Passage: The Pioneering Charter School Story
The Founders: Inside the Revolution to Invent (and Reinvent) America’s Best Charter Schools

Charter laws created permission, but people created possibility.
In this episode of Bold by Choice, co-hosts Vashaunta Harris, Jim Goenner, Ember Reichgott Junge and Don Cooper spotlight the first generation of charter founders who didn’t just respond to the system — they reimagined it.
These leaders turned ideas into schools, blueprints into movements, and challenges into opportunities. Their approaches were diverse — entrepreneurial, justice-driven, classroom-centered — but all were bold by choice.
Featured Founders & Stories
Dave Levin – Co-founder of KIPP (Knowledge Is Power Program), who turned one Houston classroom into a national model for academic rigor and character education.
J.C. Huizenga – Founder of National Heritage Academies, who brought a business-minded approach to scaling quality and sustainability across public schools.
Don Shalvey – Founder of Aspire Public Schools, one of the first CMOs, who partnered with entrepreneurs like Reed Hastings to pioneer scalable innovation.
Linda Brown – Founder of Building Excellent Schools, who built leaders, not just schools—training hundreds of founders through her rigorous fellowship model.
Roblin Webb – Founder of Freedom Prep in Memphis, who grounded her work in justice, equity, and the unwavering belief that Black students deserve excellence.
 Leadership Lessons
Vision Meets Execution: The founders proved that laws don’t change lives — people do.
Scale Requires Design: From CMOs to fellowships, structure became a tool for sustainability.
Equity Is Innovation: Justice-centered schools redefined what it means to serve every child.
Courage Is Contagious: Each founder’s risk paved the way for thousands of others.
Reflection & Challenge
As Jim and Vashaunta reflect, the first wave of charter founders reminds us that real innovation isn’t uniform — it’s courageous.The question for today’s leaders:Are we still as bold as they were?
Show Notes & Resources
Explore the stories and interviews mentioned in this episode through the Founders Library and the resources below:
The Founders: Inside the Revolution to Invent (and Reinvent) America’s Best Charter Schools — by Richard Whitmire
A School Founder’s History: Dave Levin
Interview of J.C. Huizenga
A School Founder’s History: Don Shalvey, Aspire Public Schools
The Linda Brown Collection
Pioneers and Practitioners: Freedom Preparatory Academy

Passing the first charter laws was only the beginning. Someone had to make those laws real. In this episode of Bold by Choice, co-hosts Vashaunta Harris, Jim Goenner, and Don Cooper take us back to the messy, courageous, and often misunderstood beginnings of charter school authorizing.
In Washington, D.C., Tom Nida and Jo Baker recall how two boards were formed to oversee charter schools—without a playbook, precedent, or even the word authorizer in common use.
In Minnesota, Pat Sandro raises questions about district-based authorizing and whether districts were ever the right entities to serve as neutral stewards.
Together, these stories highlight the leadership, trial-and-error, and bold problem-solving it took to move chartering from policy on paper to practice in schools.
Leadership Lessons
Lead without a playbook – Early authorizers had no blueprint; they had to define the role as they went.
Balance support and accountability – Even today, authorizers wrestle with being both partner and regulator.
Question the structure – Minnesota’s district-based model raised conflicts of interest that still spark debate.
Reimagine, don’t just repeat – Authorizing is not just compliance—it’s custodianship of the charter promise.
Show Notes & Resources
Explore the full oral histories and research in the Founders Library
Interview of Josephine (Jo) Baker and Tom Nida
Interview of Pat Sandro
Interview of Robert (Bob) Mills, Ph.D.
The Politics of Charter School Authorizing: The Case Study of New York by Jonas Chartock (2012) – Read here
 

In this episode of Bold by Choice, co-hosts Vashaunta Harris, Jim Goenner, and Don Cooper continue tracing the spread of the charter school movement—this time turning to Arizona and North Carolina.
Two very different contexts, two very different laws—but both fueled by bold leadership and a shared belief that public schools could do better for families.
In Arizona, Lisa Graham Keegan helped craft one of the most independent charter laws in the country, creating new authorizing structures outside of district control.
In North Carolina, Speaker Harold Brubaker and Senator Fountain Odom championed charters as opportunities, not attacks—navigating bipartisan politics and caps on growth.
Together, these stories show how courage, context, and coalition-building shaped the next wave of chartering in America.
Key Themes
Why the 1990s were ripe for rapid state adoption of charter laws.
The bold design choices that made Arizona’s law stand out nationally.
North Carolina’s unique balance of competition and opportunity.
Leadership lessons from Lisa Graham Keegan and Harold Brubaker.
Show Notes & Resources
Founders Library – Oral histories, legislative documents, and original resources.
Zero Chance of Passage by Ember Reichgott Junge – Get the book
Arizona & NC Oral Histories – Explore interviews with Lisa Graham Keegan and Harold Brubaker.

How did the charter school movement jump from one bold law in Minnesota to states across the country? In this episode of Bold By Choice, hosts Vashaunta Harris, Jim Goenner, and season two collaborator Don Cooper (a charter historian & researcher), travel to Michigan and Florida to explore how state leaders reshaped public education for families and communities.
You’ll hear directly from Governor John Engler of Michigan and Governor John Ellis (Jeb) Bush of Florida, who each pushed through historic charter school laws—though in very different ways.
In Michigan, Engler leveraged executive power and structural reforms to make chartering a competitive force.
In Florida, Bush and Ellis crafted a vision rooted in accountability and equity, building a new structure from scratch.
Together, these stories show how bold leadership, political courage, and strategic design helped transform state systems—and what today’s leaders can learn from their example.
Episode Highlights
Governor Engler recalls how Michigan’s charter law passed despite resistance.
Why Proposal A’s funding shift was a game-changer for Michigan schools.
Jeb Bush and John Ellis reflect on Florida’s early law and its roots in accountability and family choice.
How different political contexts produced unique models—and enduring lessons.
Leadership takeaways: seize the moment, design for context, and act boldly when the system won’t change itself.
Show Notes & Resources
Michigan
Governor John Engler Special Address to the Michigan Legislature on Education (1993)
James N. Goenner, The Origination of Michigan’s Charter Schools Policy: A Historical Analysis (2011)
Interview of Richard McLellan (2020)
Interview of Gov. John Engler (2022)
Florida
Interview of John Ellis ("Jeb") Bush (2021)
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Charter school laws didn’t appear everywhere at once. In this episode, hosts Vashaunta Harris and Jim Goenner highlight two bold frontier stories—California and Colorado—where courageous leaders and cross-aisle coalitions helped chartering carve new paths.
From California’s SB 1448 negotiated in a few days by bipartisan champions, to Colorado’s collaborative law shaped by Peggy Kerns, Bill Owens, and community stakeholders, this episode uncovers how vision, strategy, and political courage turned idea into policy.
Guests:
Ember Reichgott Junge – author of Minnesota’s first charter law, movement pioneer
Don Cooper – charter historian and civic leader
Whether you lead a school, work in policy, or just believe in educational innovation, join us to hear how these Western states blazed bold trails—and what their stories teach about leading change where you are.
Show Notes & Resource Links
California
California's Charter Schools Story. (2019) https://charterlibrary.org/library/californias-charter-schools-story/
[ACCESS REQUIRED] Hart, Gary K. and Burr, Sue. "The Story of California's Charter School Legislation." Phi Delta Kappan. (1996) https://www.jstor.org/stable/20405703?seq=1
"Education Chairs Introduce 'Charter Schools' Bills". Press release from state Senator Gary K. Hart. (1992) https://charterlibrary.org/library/education-chairs-introduce-charter-schools-bills/
Senate Bill 1448 Chapter 781. (1992). https://charterlibrary.org/library/senate-bill-no-1448-chapter-781/
Colorado
Interview of Peggy Kerns and Alex Medler. (2019) https://charterlibrary.org/library/interview-of-peggy-kerns-and-alex-medler/
Interview of Bill Owens. (2019) https://charterlibrary.org/library/interview-of-bill-owens/
Comparison of Charter School Provisions, Minnesota Statute, California Statute, and 93-183. (1993) https://charterlibrary.org/library/comparison-of-charter-school-provisions-minnesota-statute-california-statute-and-sb-93-183-1993-02-09/
Romer, Roy. State of the State Address (excerpt). (1993) https://charterlibrary.org/library/governor-roy-romer/

In this pivotal episode, hosts Vashaunta Harris and Jim Goenner explore how the charter school idea moved from a Minnesota innovation to a national movement. They are joined by Ember Reichgott Junge and Don Cooper to reflect on the federal leadership that elevated chartering from a local experiment to a system-shifting strategy supported across the country.
Listeners will hear clips from Senator Dave Durenberger and Jon Schroeder that capture the heart of this moment in history—when federal policymakers saw the potential for chartering to transform public education and chose to champion it. Together, the group unpacks how asking the right question at the right time, combined with strategic policy design, created the federal Charter Schools Program.
Episode Highlights:
Senator Dave Durenberger’s powerful story of the question that sparked action.
How “public service options” and state-level innovation became federal priorities.
Jon Schroeder’s blueprint for funding and authorizing charter schools at scale.
The crucial role of authorizers and why structure drives outcomes.
Lessons in timing, collaboration, and coalition-building that still apply today.
Whether you’re a policy leader, authorizer, or educator, this episode offers a masterclass in how visionary questions and strategic action create the conditions for lasting systems change.
Listen now to learn how federal leadership made chartering a national priority—and how you can keep building on that legacy.
Resources & Show Notes:
Founder’s Library — Explore the documents and oral histories from Senator Dave Durenberger and Jon Schroeder.
1994 Public School Redefinition Act Summary — Learn how the federal Charter Schools Program came to life.
2018 Conversation: Ted Kolderie & Ember Reichgott Junge
Interview with Ember Reichgott Junge (2023)
Creating the Capacity for Change by Ted Kolderie

In this powerful episode of Bold By Choice, host Vashaunta Harris and Jim Goenner sit down with Ember Reichgott Junge — the Minnesota State Senator who authored the nation’s first charter school law — and charter historian Don Cooper. Together, they revisit the story of how one bold law sparked a national movement, reshaping the landscape of public education.
Ember takes listeners behind the scenes of the late 1980s and early 1990s, weaving together the context, opposition, compromises, and breakthroughs that led to the passage of the first charter school law in 1991. From the Nation at Risk report to Governor Rudy Perpich’s reforms, the Itasca Conference dinner napkin sketch, and finally the emotional “worst day of her career” that ended in legislative victory, Ember’s story reveals how bold leadership, persistence, and principled compromise created the conditions for change.
Episode Highlights:
How A Nation at Risk and Governor Perpich’s reforms set the stage for chartering.
The pivotal role of the Citizens League and Ted Kolderie in advancing bold ideas.
Ember’s personal journey: navigating resistance from unions, moderates, and political allies.
The tense final days of 1991, when the law nearly died — and then passed by just three votes.
Leadership lessons from Ember’s story: compromise is not defeat, structure must change before strategy, and timing matters.
Whether you’re an educator, policymaker, or advocate, this episode offers timeless lessons in courage, resilience, and system redesign. Ember reminds us that laws aren’t just ink on paper — they’re ideas that can change lives.
Show Notes & Resources:
Zero Chance of Passage: The Pioneering Charter School Story (2012)
Remarks by Sen. Ember Reichgott Junge to the Democratic Leadership Conference (1991)
“Involving Families in Education” – A White House Panel (1995)
A Conversation between Ted Kolderie and Ember Reichgott Junge (2018): Chartering Origins | Why and How | Chartering Policy and Advocacy
https://charterlibrary.org/library/2018-kolderie-and-junge-discussion-part-1-chartering-origins/; Why and How https://charterlibrary.org/library/2018-kolderie-and-junge-discussion-part-2-chartering-why-and-how/; Chartering Policy and Advocacy https://charterlibrary.org/library/2018-kolderie-and-junge-discussion-part-3-chartering-policy-and-advocacy/
Interview of Ember Reichgott Junge (2023)
Brief Amici Curiae of Former Elected and Appointed Officials, St. Isidore v. Oklahoma (2025)
Oklahoma Charter School Board v. Drummond and St. Isidore of Seville School v. Drummond Oral Argument
Additional Reading: Chartering A Better Course (book); Zero Rights of Passage (available via donation — inquire through the Charter Library).
Listen now to uncover the true story behind the first charter school law — a story of vision, resistance, compromise, and bold leadership.