Bold By Choice Podcast

S2 E5 Chartering the Frontier

Charter school laws didn’t appear everywhere at once. In this episode, hosts Vashaunta Harris and Jim Goenner highlight two bold frontier stories—California and Colorado—where courageous leaders and cross-aisle coalitions helped chartering carve new paths.
From California’s SB 1448 negotiated in a few days by bipartisan champions, to Colorado’s collaborative law shaped by Peggy Kerns, Bill Owens, and community stakeholders, this episode uncovers how vision, strategy, and political courage turned idea into policy.
Guests:
Ember Reichgott Junge – author of Minnesota’s first charter law, movement pioneer
Don Cooper – charter historian and civic leader
Whether you lead a school, work in policy, or just believe in educational innovation, join us to hear how these Western states blazed bold trails—and what their stories teach about leading change where you are.
Show Notes & Resource Links
California
California's Charter Schools Story. (2019) https://charterlibrary.org/library/californias-charter-schools-story/
[ACCESS REQUIRED] Hart, Gary K. and Burr, Sue. "The Story of California's Charter School Legislation." Phi Delta Kappan. (1996) https://www.jstor.org/stable/20405703?seq=1
"Education Chairs Introduce 'Charter Schools' Bills". Press release from state Senator Gary K. Hart. (1992) https://charterlibrary.org/library/education-chairs-introduce-charter-schools-bills/
Senate Bill 1448 Chapter 781. (1992). https://charterlibrary.org/library/senate-bill-no-1448-chapter-781/
Colorado
Interview of Peggy Kerns and Alex Medler. (2019) https://charterlibrary.org/library/interview-of-peggy-kerns-and-alex-medler/
Interview of Bill Owens. (2019) https://charterlibrary.org/library/interview-of-bill-owens/
Comparison of Charter School Provisions, Minnesota Statute, California Statute, and 93-183. (1993) https://charterlibrary.org/library/comparison-of-charter-school-provisions-minnesota-statute-california-statute-and-sb-93-183-1993-02-09/
Romer, Roy. State of the State Address (excerpt). (1993) https://charterlibrary.org/library/governor-roy-romer/

S2 E4 The Formation of the Law (Federal)

In this pivotal episode, hosts Vashaunta Harris and Jim Goenner explore how the charter school idea moved from a Minnesota innovation to a national movement. They are joined by Ember Reichgott Junge and Don Cooper to reflect on the federal leadership that elevated chartering from a local experiment to a system-shifting strategy supported across the country.
Listeners will hear clips from Senator Dave Durenberger and Jon Schroeder that capture the heart of this moment in history—when federal policymakers saw the potential for chartering to transform public education and chose to champion it. Together, the group unpacks how asking the right question at the right time, combined with strategic policy design, created the federal Charter Schools Program.
Episode Highlights:
Senator Dave Durenberger’s powerful story of the question that sparked action.
How “public service options” and state-level innovation became federal priorities.
Jon Schroeder’s blueprint for funding and authorizing charter schools at scale.
The crucial role of authorizers and why structure drives outcomes.
Lessons in timing, collaboration, and coalition-building that still apply today.
Whether you’re a policy leader, authorizer, or educator, this episode offers a masterclass in how visionary questions and strategic action create the conditions for lasting systems change.
Listen now to learn how federal leadership made chartering a national priority—and how you can keep building on that legacy.
Resources & Show Notes:
Founder’s Library — Explore the documents and oral histories from Senator Dave Durenberger and Jon Schroeder.
1994 Public School Redefinition Act Summary — Learn how the federal Charter Schools Program came to life.
2018 Conversation: Ted Kolderie & Ember Reichgott Junge
Interview with Ember Reichgott Junge (2023)
Creating the Capacity for Change by Ted Kolderie

S2 E3 The Law That Changed Everything – The Charter Story with Ember Reichgott Junge

In this powerful episode of Bold By Choice, host Vashaunta Harris and Jim Goenner sit down with Ember Reichgott Junge — the Minnesota State Senator who authored the nation’s first charter school law — and charter historian Don Cooper. Together, they revisit the story of how one bold law sparked a national movement, reshaping the landscape of public education.
Ember takes listeners behind the scenes of the late 1980s and early 1990s, weaving together the context, opposition, compromises, and breakthroughs that led to the passage of the first charter school law in 1991. From the Nation at Risk report to Governor Rudy Perpich’s reforms, the Itasca Conference dinner napkin sketch, and finally the emotional “worst day of her career” that ended in legislative victory, Ember’s story reveals how bold leadership, persistence, and principled compromise created the conditions for change.
Episode Highlights:
How A Nation at Risk and Governor Perpich’s reforms set the stage for chartering.
The pivotal role of the Citizens League and Ted Kolderie in advancing bold ideas.
Ember’s personal journey: navigating resistance from unions, moderates, and political allies.
The tense final days of 1991, when the law nearly died — and then passed by just three votes.
Leadership lessons from Ember’s story: compromise is not defeat, structure must change before strategy, and timing matters.
Whether you’re an educator, policymaker, or advocate, this episode offers timeless lessons in courage, resilience, and system redesign. Ember reminds us that laws aren’t just ink on paper — they’re ideas that can change lives.
Show Notes & Resources:
Zero Chance of Passage: The Pioneering Charter School Story (2012)
Remarks by Sen. Ember Reichgott Junge to the Democratic Leadership Conference (1991)
“Involving Families in Education” – A White House Panel (1995)
A Conversation between Ted Kolderie and Ember Reichgott Junge (2018): Chartering Origins | Why and How | Chartering Policy and Advocacy
https://charterlibrary.org/library/2018-kolderie-and-junge-discussion-part-1-chartering-origins/; Why and How https://charterlibrary.org/library/2018-kolderie-and-junge-discussion-part-2-chartering-why-and-how/; Chartering Policy and Advocacy https://charterlibrary.org/library/2018-kolderie-and-junge-discussion-part-3-chartering-policy-and-advocacy/
Interview of Ember Reichgott Junge (2023)
Brief Amici Curiae of Former Elected and Appointed Officials, St. Isidore v. Oklahoma (2025)
Oklahoma Charter School Board v. Drummond and St. Isidore of Seville School v. Drummond Oral Argument
Additional Reading: Chartering A Better Course (book); Zero Rights of Passage (available via donation — inquire through the Charter Library).
Listen now to uncover the true story behind the first charter school law — a story of vision, resistance, compromise, and bold leadership.
 

S2 E2 Ted Kolderie – You Can’t Expect New Results from Old Designs

In this episode, hosts Vashaunta Harris and Jim Goenner reflect on the life and legacy of Ted Kolderie, whose groundbreaking ideas reframed chartering not just as a type of school, but as a system redesign strategy. Joined by returning guests Ember Reichgott Junge and Don Cooper, the conversation pairs archival clips of Ted with fresh insights about what it means to lead boldly today.
Episode Highlights:
Why language matters: chartering as a verb, not a noun.
Teacher leadership and the radical redesign of school roles.
The “big boat/little boat” analogy and what it teaches us about innovation.
Leadership lessons for today: redesign structures, empower teachers, and create space for small, nimble experiments.
Featured Archival Clips from the Charter Library Oral History: Ted Kolderie
Resources & Links:
Zero Chance of Passage by Ember Reichgott Junge
Creating the Capacity for Change (2004)
Chartered Schools = Choices for Educators + Quality for All Students (1988 Citizens League Report)
Making the School the Teachers’ School (2022)
Listen now and hear Ted’s words brought back to life—paired with reflections from the people who knew him best.

S2 E1 Where It All Began – The Roots of Chartering

In our Season 2 premiere, hosts Vashaunta Harris and Jim Goenner travel back to the spark that ignited a national movement. With guests Don Cooper and Ember Reichgott Junge, we trace the formative ideas, people, and policy moments that shaped chartering—from early proposals by Ray Budde to Al Shanker’s influential 1988 National Press Club speech, and the Minnesota Citizens League’s work that turned ideas into law.
This episode pairs vivid storytelling with primary sources so you can follow along, explore the documents yourself, and share them with your teams.
Explore the primary sources
National Charter Schools Founders Library (primary-source archive): https://charterlibrary.org/
Al Shanker, National Press Club (1988): overview at the Founders Library: https://charterlibrary.org/library/albert-shanker-national-press-club-speech-1988/ 
Ray Budde resources: https://charterlibrary.org/search/?_author=ray-budde&_author_list=ray-budde\
 
Education by Charter (backgrounder / origins): https://www.educationevolving.org/files/Ray-Budde-Origins-Of-Chartering.pdf
Strengthen School‑Based Management by Chartering All Schools (1996): https://openlibrary.org/books/OL31401521M/Strengthen_school-based_management_by_chartering_all_schools
Kolderie essay on Budde’s origins (PDF): https://charterlibrary.org/library/ray-budde-the-origins-of-the-charter-concept-by-ted-kolderie/
Founders Library feature: “1988—The Launch of an Idea”: https://charterlibrary.org/library/1988-the-launch-of-an-idea/
Ember Reichgott Junge’s book Zero Chance of Passage (Founders Library page): https://charterlibrary.org/zero-chance-of-passage-shop/
What we cover
Ray Budde’s charter concept: Why a quiet academic proposed reorganizing authority by giving teacher teams contractual autonomy—and how that differed from traditional “program” reforms.
Al Shanker’s second-wave reform: Why a national union leader called for teacher‑led, autonomous public schools—and how that reframed the conversation.
From ideas to statute: How Minnesota’s Citizens League translated theory into policy architecture, paving the way for the first charter law.
Politics, promise, and pushback: Early tensions, misperceptions, and the practical tradeoffs that shaped implementation.
Why it matters nowUnderstanding chartering’s roots isn’t nostalgia—it’s navigation. Knowing the original intent (teacher power + public accountability) helps today’s leaders stay true to the promise while innovating for the future.
Takeaways
Chartering began as a public‑school reform from within: autonomy with accountability.
Real change scaled when local civic groups turned ideas into workable law and authorizers implemented with integrity.
Listen now and use the links above to dive deeper, brief your board, or kickstart PD with founding documents.

S1 E10 What’s Next – Season 2 Preview & What We’re Excited About

In this special live episode recorded at the National Charter School Alliance Conference, hosts Vashaunta Harris and Jim Goenner celebrate 30 years of chartering and offer a preview of what’s ahead in Season 2. Joined by Don Cooper and Ember Reichgott Junge, they walk through the founding stories that sparked the movement and reflect on why the history of chartering still matters today.
From the launch of the Founders Library exhibit to the stories behind the very first charter law, this episode connects past, present, and future—and invites listeners to consider their role in writing the next chapter.
Episode Highlights:
The origin and significance of the Founders Library exhibit
Reflections from Don Cooper and Ember Reichgott Junge on the early charter movement
Why understanding history is essential to leading with clarity today
A preview of Season 2 themes: legacy, leadership, and the future of chartering
Listen now to reflect on the movement’s roots and get inspired for what’s coming next!

S1 E9 Who We Serve – Authorizers, Boards, and School Leaders

In this episode of Bold By Choice, hosts Vashaunta Harris and Jim Goenner shine a light on the three essential roles that uphold the charter school promise: authorizers, governing boards, and school leaders. Joined by Alyson Murphy, Director of Partner Services at the National Charter Schools Institute, they unpack how clarity, trust, and aligned responsibilities create a strong governance ecosystem—and how misalignment can quickly derail student success.
Using a fictional (but all-too-familiar) scenario and a powerful basketball metaphor, the conversation explores what happens when roles blur and finger‑pointing replaces partnership. Alyson breaks down the unique responsibilities of each stakeholder—school leaders as the players, boards as the coaches, authorizers as the referees—and shares real-world stories of both failure and success.
Episode Highlights:
The “three‑legged stool” of charter success: authorizer, board, and school leadership
What each role is (and is not) responsible for during crisis and change
How misalignment impacts students first—and how to spot early warning signs
Real examples of authorizers, boards, and leaders working in true partnership
Practical tips for building trust, clarity, and shared accountability across the ecosystem
When the system works as intended—each role playing its part with purpose and discipline—students win. But it takes intentional relationship‑building and a shared commitment to the charter promise.
Listen now to learn how clearly defined roles and trusted partnerships can transform schools from the boardroom to the classroom.

S1 E8 Innovation & Support – Beyond Compliance

S1 E8 Innovation & Support: Beyond Compliance
In this dynamic episode of Bold By Choice, hosts Vashaunta Harris and Jim Goenner welcome special guest Don Cooper, Senior Fellow at the National Charter Schools Institute and Director of Civic Initiatives at the Gerald R. Ford Presidential Foundation. Together, they explore the powerful concept of authorizing as a role that extends far beyond compliance and regulation.
Don shares insightful stories and experiences from his extensive career, emphasizing how authorizers can play pivotal roles as thought partners, innovation drivers, and capacity builders. He challenges listeners to view compliance not as an end goal, but as a baseline for strategic, meaningful support that fosters transformative educational outcomes.
Listeners will gain practical advice on how to cultivate a supportive, human-centered approach in their work, creating robust, lasting relationships between authorizers and schools. Don highlights the importance of values-driven authorizing, the impact of tailored support for schools and students, and innovative ways higher education authorizers can uniquely empower and uplift their school communities.
Episode Highlights:
Rethinking compliance as a floor, not a ceiling.
Strategic approaches to supportive authorizing that prioritize human connections.
Effective ways for authorizers to build meaningful relationships and trust with schools.
Leveraging institutional resources in higher education authorizing to support schools and students.
The role of continuous, values-driven improvement in the authorizing ecosystem.
Whether you're an authorizer, board member, school leader, or educator, this episode offers profound insights into how strategic support and innovative thinking can transform educational outcomes and strengthen the charter school ecosystem.
Listen now to discover the power of moving beyond compliance to meaningful, impactful partnerships!

S1 E7 Closure Doesn’t Have to Be the END

In this heartfelt and candid episode of Bold By Choice, hosts Vashaunta Harris and Jim Goenner tackle one of the toughest topics in charter school leadership—closure. Joined by Heather Wendling from the National Charter Schools Institute, they dive deep into the emotional, logistical, and community-driven aspects of closing a school.
Vashaunta, Jim, and Heather openly share their personal and professional experiences with school closures, offering listeners an honest look at the difficult realities and essential considerations that must guide these critical decisions. They address the reasons behind closures, from academic performance and finances to governance and enrollment challenges, while questioning whether communities truly have a meaningful voice in these decisions.
The conversation emphasizes the importance of handling closure with humanity, dignity, and transparency, ensuring that the impact on students, families, educators, and communities is handled with compassion and care. The hosts challenge listeners to view closure not merely as an end but as an opportunity for reflection, growth, and improvement within the educational ecosystem.
Episode Highlights:
Understanding the complex reasons behind school closures.
Ensuring community voices genuinely influence closure decisions.
Defining what a healthy education ecosystem means.
Best practices for handling closures humanely and compassionately.
Transforming closures into opportunities for learning and systemic improvement.
Whether you're navigating a school closure or shaping policies that impact educational communities, this episode offers valuable insights and guidance to lead with integrity, compassion, and courage.
Listen now to discover how closure, though difficult, can still reflect your values and commitment to the communities you serve.

S1 E6 Renewal – Earning the Right to Continue

In this insightful and reflective episode of Bold By Choice, hosts Vashaunta Harris and Jim Goenner welcome Mary Bradley, Chief Operating Officer, and Heather Wendling, VP of Professional Services, from the National Charter Schools Institute to discuss one of the most pivotal moments in a charter school’s life: renewal.
Together, they explore the deep meaning of renewal beyond compliance, framing it as a critical checkpoint that ensures schools keep their promises to students, families, and communities. Mary and Heather emphasize renewal as an opportunity to recalibrate, realign, and recommit to the shared vision of excellence and continuous improvement.
Listeners will discover how successful renewal practices balance accountability with grace, consider both qualitative and quantitative measures, and highlight ongoing storytelling to showcase a school’s journey authentically. Through vivid examples and compelling metaphors, the conversation illuminates how renewal, done right, strengthens trust, transparency, and long-term growth.
Episode Highlights:
Understanding renewal as a vital checkpoint for performance and community trust.
Evolving practices in charter renewal toward clarity, transparency, and continuous improvement.
Key considerations for renewal: academics, financial health, governance, leadership, and operations.
Strategies for balancing accountability with support during challenging times.
The role of storytelling in communicating renewal clearly and meaningfully to the broader community.
Whether you're a school leader preparing for renewal, an authorizer refining your renewal practices, or a board member guiding your school through critical milestones, this episode offers profound insights to help you navigate renewal effectively.
Listen now to understand how the renewal process can empower schools, honor promises, and drive future success!